Is Spirituality Spiritual?

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[Jana]

Again, I gotta ask...is spirituality spiritual?
I don't see much sign of it being so, tho there is alot of noise to the fact.

What if you just want to get on with your life warts and all without paying the gatekeeper the $650 for a transformative weekend. Does that mean you are a loser doomed to hell, a failure at the spiritual game? Should you enslave yourself or beg the Guru-therapist for a cheaper price of admittance to God?

Are you condemned to zero-growth because you are not financially fit enough to pay the master? What if you are not hurting? What if you are busilly engaged in your own life, and consider the inner-guru the supreme teacher, guide and healer. Should you then get off your own path in order to join your socalled spiritual friends in a round of navel gazing?

You better if you don't want to be told repeatedly you are a loser for not joining in the spiritual circus...such as this recent comment to me:

"Jana, for what it's worth you seem to me to be someone who is incredibly determined to stay stuck. Good luck with your path, wherever it takes you - and if you're at your final stop on the road for this life, that's alright too."

But you know, all that does for me is makes me think "Thank God I do not have to participate in the spiritual circus anymore because it looks like it is not working for them—I've got a better game—it's called wholeness, completeness, sovereignty and giving up the terrible search!!"

Besides its a whole lot cheaper, and you don't have to sell your soul to peers or socalled teachers.

In this day and age, if anything professes to be "spiritual" you can bet it probably isn't...it is spirit in reverse—some kind of nasty appearance of spirit that bites if you are not interested.

[henry]

hi jana. we both like joe pearce( he will be interviewed on virato live in a couple weeks). a quote from him is "people innoculate themselves with the weak form of the virus so that when the real thing comes along there is no danger of catching it". with hard earned discernment, rigor and focus, there may be gold in them thar hills. pearce would encourage heartfulness .  ...henry

[Jana]

You talking about JCP Henry?

I recently heard part of a radio interview with him something to the effect of:
Practicing peace in times of war...
you withdraw your energy completely from the Ship of State...do not spend one ounce of our energy either condemning or trying to save the Ship of State. Instead of trying to change "Culture," focus on putting your energy into the Lifeforce itself...that is tend to the barren fig tree like Jesus suggested. In this way "higher" socialization of the human animal is bought about.

The spiritual circus is increasingly becoming a pet amusement of mine, as I watch people contort themselves in their various posturings...but I shouldn't be so above it all really..however, I have paid my dues, both in surviving my own existence and enduring those socalled awakenings.

people just don't really get the way things really are unless they have been thru the thickofit all on their lonesome...you have to be drowning and will to save yourself in order to be whole...or you can just join the spiritual circus and play the game with a bunch of friends.

If it an't broke, don't fix it!

[jimtzu]

when you realize the pathless path it looks to others that you've stopped or have gotten off the (their?) path.  no matter where you go, there you are. 

it's the marketing of anything, especially "spirituality" (as if  it really can be marketed  ) that destroys it's essence.  but some people would rather go to the circus     just beware of the clowns

[Jana]

Obviously we must distinquish the baby from the bathwater if possible. I tend to globalize, and all spiritual talk sometimes sounds like a huge mindcontrol snow job, of people manipulating and extorting each other...continually waking up to new levels of excuses for selling water by the river.
I probably do it myself, tho I have a subplot of antithesis to my thesis, and can't go too wrong as long as I don't start wearing a mala and pretending I know something.

Thing is I appreciate this one specific teacher enormously but would like to point out hte spiritual abuse involved in "followers" trying to get one in on the party. Fact is if one doesn't have the entry fee one can only be a party pooper or crasher anyways.

I want to make it a life commitment of mine to never attend any formal teaching related to spiritual matters. Like when I attended the Saniel workshop the shadow and subplot of the thing nearly drove me bonkers. I hate coercion, tho it looks like that is what the human primate is primarily about.

http://www.quixoticals.com/2007/07/how-to-be-cult-leader.html

Religion is the avoidance of the Self thru the imitation of some other individual, book, ideology, icon or group of individuals...imitation is not the Self.

[henry]

jana, "julian" is hosting a "z2 riding the kundalini dragon" symposium starting next wednesday at zaadz. you can find a link at i-i zaadz. i thought you might be interested.  ..henry

[Jana]

It might sound rude Henry but I am not really interested on others ideas of kundalini...too busy editing my own. The traditional views and jargon don't do much for me...tho I did find a good writer today...
 
Lifting The Veil, Practical Kabbalah with Kundalini Yoga by Joseph Michael Levry
Alchemy of Love Relationships by Joseph Michael Levry (Kabbalah, Kundalini)

While it is not proper to complain of such things, duty calls me to make a point.  And that is that said spiritual punter has never met me, and only conversed a smidgen with me on a forum. So Mr Punter doesn’t know that I have put myself thru years of loneliness, boredom, deprivation, lack of stimulation etc…in order to create my magnum opus for the good of all sentient creatures.
Das punter wants to put me thru more sacrifice and hardship in order to attend a spiritual workshop weekend.
However if weighted on the scale of destiny, my purgatory might amount to 10,000 workshops, so who is to say who is not going anywhere. Afterall  what is not being done as we earnestly focus on improving ourselves.
I always wanted a teacher and traveling companions when I was younger, now I know I am far better off without them. Some people look for the answers outside and are sent on a wild goose chase, others find more immediate answers within.
I don’t ask for love, just a little respect.
Each to his own path.
Mind your own, and stay out of others way.

[Jana]

The living Spirit is untamed, cannot be defined, or encased within any book or teaching, nor entombed within any system, or encrusted with dogma. Remember this, and you will not be burdened with the weight of your own belief system.

I wouldn't presume to know if someone was stuck because they could afford to attend a workshop/therapist I was partial to. I certainly wouldn't tell them they are stuck. Nor gloat that I was receiving enormous benefit from something they couldn't attend.

That means I am at least more civilized. 

[jimtzu]

the early taoists came the closest when they said you can't define the undefinable,  after that it's just a muddy stream.  words are abstractions, a distraction from the ........   i've said too much already 

[Jana]

Yea that which is ineffiable will be the most talked about thing in the era of homo sapiens.


I am going to construct a new pitfall...
Billigerant over-sincerity—Only the coolest most elite teachers and teachings will suffice. To be worn as badges of power and prestige. A mean spiritual materialism that beats others over the head with its sense of righteous superiority. The insensitivity to the principle of "Necessity" in spiritual unfolding, prevents the appreciation of infinite diversity of paths and of allowing others their own process. This pitfall includes aspects of pitfalls.6,7,9,10,11,12.
http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=PitfallsonthePath

[jimtzu]

Exclusivity is not just a problem for christianity (although it's built in) or any other religion or way of spirituality.   just as you can't walk in the same river twice, any path that has been laid out will not take you to the same place as the one who trailblazed before you.  that's why each of us  must find our own way into the dark forest.  although it's more comfortable to follow in someones footsteps, it'll never take you to where you want to be or where they are.

[Jana]

If you fully grasp the power (exclusion/inclusion) basis to our primate brain, and that it uses punishment (pain) and reward (pleasure) as its manipulative tool, then you will be immune from social coersion. However, you must still comport yourself in such a manner as to not attract superstition and abuse from society, for if you set yourself up as a target by whatever means, and then you harm others by provoking them to victimize you.

Biology and Human Behavior: The Neurological Origins of Individuality, 2nd Edition by Robert Sapolsky
(24 lectures on Audio) http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=1597&id=1597&d=Biology+and+Human+Behavior%3A+The+Neurological+Origins+of+Individuality%2C+2nd+Edition&pc=Professor124

[henry]

"we shall not cease from exploraration, and at the end of our exploring we will arrive at the place we started and know it for the first time", or something like that. Jana, you are being acknowledged more than gopi krishna and stuart sovatsky on the zaadz kundalini symposium.   ..henry

[Jana]

Thanks Henry
I am constantly humiliated by my ignorance.

[Denis]

Personally, the thing that has keep me silent through the talks by gurus and teachers is a kind of shame, a guilty feeling at the thought that I might know as well as any where it applies to my own inner scape.

It has made me willing to appear to swallow the whole thing ,hook line and sinker rather than be exposed as arrogant and pretentious. But privately, I have never been able to stay mesmerized for very long before being back to the point of origin but minus one more would be Saviour.