Pitfalls to Sovereignty

13 Guests, 0 Users

The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

Advanced search

Dilber MulticolorMarley TPSMF Default Theme -

[Michael]

Hi Jana,

I am currently musing on the difference between individuation and personal sovereignty.  Would you care to differentiate the two?

[Jana]

What is the difference between individuation and personal sovereignty?
It’s just wordage...Jung might be able to make a specific difference. Casually it seems that Individuation is the process of attaining Sovereignty. We seem to be using sovereignty of late to cut through the prepersonal regression of the traditions and economic gloom. After we have stressed sovereignty for a certain number of generations, we will then stress something else. But we will never get the rocket ship of Individuation off the ground with the enmeshed, unfocused and entropic energy levels of the prepersonal culture. We have to build energy to release the genius within before we have anything of real worth to offer human evolvement. We can however very easily waste our life catering, pandering and enabling the codependent status quo and bandaging the colossal pain that it produces...the pain of not showing up.

[Jana]

Awesome Jim...its summer...the birds.
Nothing beats NZ bird song.

[Michael]

What is the difference between individuation and personal sovereignty?
It’s just wordage...Jung might be able to make a specific difference. Casually it seems that Individuation is the process of attaining Sovereignty. We seem to be using sovereignty of late to cut through the prepersonal regression of the traditions and economic gloom. After we have stressed sovereignty for a certain number of generations, we will then stress something else. But we will never get the rocket ship of Individuation off the ground with the enmeshed, unfocused and entropic energy levels of the prepersonal culture. We have to build energy to release the genius within before we have anything of real worth to offer human evolvement. We can however very easily waste our life catering, pandering and enabling the codependent status quo and bandaging the colossal pain that it produces...the pain of not showing up.

Thanks Jana.  It seems like making that distinction would be rather crucial to a Pitfalls of Sovereignty project.  I'd consider renaming it to Pitfalls of Individuation...

Maybe we can have a go at delineating that difference...  for a start, it has something to do with: once there is enough solid grounded individualization, one can start to allow the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune to annihilate that which shields and protects separation.

[henry]

maybe throw "autonomy" in the mix also .... to me sovereignty connotes sovereignty over, i.e. the wife of Bath wants sovereignty over her husband . Etymology may continue to matter until 2012 

[Michael]

Actually, thinking and talking this over more, maybe a better distinction would be that individuation is more of a dynamically moving and flowing state, whereas sovereignty is a more static condition.  Something to be granted and to grant, rather than something that is in constant dynamic folding and unfolding...an endlessly creative and co-creative activity.

Sovereignty seems to denote a condition of attainment or arrival rather than a constant dance and interplay of boundary conditions...

[jimtzu]

how about this.. sovereignty has an outward focus while individutation has more of an inward focus, as viewed from the self...   

[Michael]

Etymology may continue to matter until 2012 

Brilliant! LOL Henry

[Jana]

Sovereignty means that we preside over our own Self, are the center of our universe, sourced from Cosmos, and transcendent of all in the human condition that would degrade our cosmic unity and autonomy. This doesn't mean that we live in a bubble but that we learn very quickly what works to enhance our well-being and opening and what causes us harm and brain damage. In order to continually incarnate and to perfect our alchemical transformation we create a world around us that supports our noble, sovereign stature. It is a simple process of loving ourselves. But in this presovereign world we are taught to be beggers for love...a love that is no love at all but a terriblely draining entropic dependency...of individuals drowning from being cut off from Source. Only by plugging ourselves back into the cosmos through our sovereign umbilical can we love.

The pitfalls are definitely pitfalls to sovereignty, and there are billions of them.

There is this American Bishop living in Iceland that wrote to me out of the blue and told me to grow up and stop screwing around...
Me, the most celibate individual in all of creation. This shaming, bully tactic is used by the old school to create compliant slaves. We terrorize each other into conformity. He keeps sending me letters which I throw in the trash unopened. The last one had a flyer in it that he wanted me to put up around town. But there is no way in hell or heaven that I would support bully turds even if they do call themself Bishop. Shame on you shamer. The days of sexual intimidation for religious power are well and truly over.
SOVEREIGNTY! FREEDOM! JOY!

[Michael]

Sovereignty means that we preside over our own Self, are the center of our universe, sourced from Cosmos, and transcendent of all in the human condition that would degrade our cosmic unity and autonomy. This doesn't mean that we live in a bubble...

Yet that's exactly how it does indeed appear.  Like someone living in a protected cocoon.

Cosmic unity and autonomy can't possibly be degraded if they are the least bit authentic.  What can be degraded is a precarious image or idea of those things.   

I wonder what's actually going on inside the protected cocoon?...

[Jana]

It is not living in a protective cocoon, sovereignty is coming out of the cocoon and throwing off our armor. And we need to be spirituall lit, deeply awake and alive to live without armor. Meta-awareness of the power-pyramid, plus sovereignty practice and skills allows our armor to slowly come off. Sovereignty is having meta-awareness of how the pyramid plays in our lives and choosing the high road instead of going unconscious.

Sovereignty means we stop wasting our lives in endless nonsense vying for attention, seeking affirmation, requesting quidance, looking for saviors, placating bullies, catering to providers, toiling for useless projects, looking for love from others, seeking profit where there are only chains. We stop feeling the need to be certified, bonified, rectified, redeemed and recovered. We are our own salvation and an end in ourselves. Sovereignty means there is actually someone at the helm directing the ship in deep and subtle ways, in rhythm with cosmic unfolding, and not distracted by the circus...but fully participatory because we are free and open and not a shackled automaton.
Only through our sovereignty can we come together to  build relationships that evolve the human condition. Everything else is various forms of fear-based degradation or stagnation. Sovereignty after all is showing up. But not merely showing up. It is showing up in the bliss, joy and effortless grace of Source.

If we are not sovereign we are indulging in some form of infantilism...but it is really hard to see this at first because infantilism is the socialized norm. As we start to get a taste for what sovereignty is we start getting stronger inside and can feel when we are weaker...then with this sovereignty meter we can work our way free of all the pathological systems in which we are engaged. Sovereignty is the ability to "choose" from the position of Self, what is best for us and all living creatures. But we have to put ourselves fully in the picture before we can become transparent.

When we become solutions oriented we do not fear problems and we do not fear life...and so the shaming, bully, power and control  mechanisms of the Borg no longer hold us back. As we stop abandoning our Self and heal the inner Borg with love and awareness and come home to our Self we become transparent to spirit.

[Nickeson]

Hey,

maybe throw "autonomy" in the mix also .... to me sovereignty connotes sovereignty over, i.e. the wife of Bath wants sovereignty over her husband . Etymology may continue to matter until 2012 

Henry, you are wise. Autonomy is always such a good word. And sovereignty is always such a political word. There is a lot of strength in Michael's thoughts on the matter. And I like Jim's inward/outward take.

"Individuation" to me is a very private affair. It is the stuff between ego consciousness and dreams and fantasies. One's lover always plays a part in individuation, but those kind of dances never leave the home. There are additional aspects that remain only in the private conversations with one's wise councilors.

Individuation, a process that never ceases, like Michael says, can lead to autonomy...if a value for autonomy is part of one's DNA or cultural upbringing. I can imagine individuation leading one toward an intensified relationship with a valued community in which agency is subordinated to communion...something of a negation of autonomy.

Autonomy can be private or public. There are a lot of autonomous people out there flying below the public radar. These are the people who sleep under bridges. And then there are those who demand autonomy in a public context..."You do not control me!" These are the people who are demanding sovereignty in a subject/object sense. And in light of that rather shaky reasoning, I say that "sovereignty" is the correct word to use for this thread, because from what I have been able to see, the point of this thread is about attaining autonomy in the face of opposition from The Borg, or the Matrix, or the Pyramid of Power--all of which are public operations. If one makes a stand against a public authority it is a political act. Of all the definitions of sovereignty I have found on the web, only one may not (but then again in context, may) have to do with governmental status. One (generally a state) is sovereign vis-a-vis another power or other powers. One does not have to be individuated to act politically or as a sovereign individual.

I spent three or four years in the 70's writing articles and essays and a couple of text books that argued for Native American Tribal Sovereignty based on (please don't laugh) the divine right of kings as brought forward by British Mercantilism and made native to the USA through Chief Justice John Marshall's federalist leaning opinions in Johnson vs McKintosh and Graham's Leasee, and US vs Georgia. (Which have held out in favor of the 'Skins for 178 years.) And as a result of my focus in that span of years, sovereignty has to do with laws and politics. Maybe my point of view has been skewed by experience, but if I never hear another word having to do with either the law or politics, it is going to be too soon and that unfortunately includes the word "sovereignty."

It is my experience that the more one is individuated the less likely one will need to claim sovereignty and the more likely one will act autonomously. In the everyday vocabulary of an autonomous and individuated human being one will not find "The Borg," The Matrix," "The Pyramid of Power"...irrelevant... gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā.

Ya know whaddimean?

In the Spirit of Crazy Horse,
Steven

[Jana]

 
It we find that we are in a string of abusive hell-realm social interactions we may have to back off the types of social transactions we were engaged in order to build up our immune and hormonal systems and get our body back into an anabolic or building-repairing state. Then if we do our sovereign core building practices and recover our strength we should be able to reenter the stream of social engagement on a higher note, with less of the caustic stress of lower energy transactions. We have to build energy to release the genius within before we have anything of real worth to offer human evolvement. So if we react to the Borg on its terms all hope is lost for it is ALL ENTROPY and life degrading. Don’t try and make what is not working work. Rather retreat, gather your forces and “show up” on a new, deeper level with more profound resources to draw from.

[Francis]

See ya later sweetie. You know where to find me.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x867csUoyjg

[Jana]

Here is the second part in the Tsarion series:
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/12dec/RIR-091217-mtsarion.mp3
Altho it seems like he is not integrally informed (read Ken Wilber) he presents a perfect counter balance to integral thought, which is somehow healing and furthering...like the uroborus is meeting better somehow. A curbing of our compulsive abstraction and distancing. A reverse almost of integral thought. I would love to hear a conversation between Ken, Alan Cohen or Craig Hamilton and Tsarion.

Yes MTs style is generalist and boyish, but his critique is subtle, penetrating and healing.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/jzvo5j7d2t.mp3  —The Future of God: Spirituality in an Evolving Universe with Craig Hamilton – Awesome metaview.