Divorce

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[Daniel]

The one thing kids fear most.
I see this sign every morning on my way to work.

[Daniel]

I've always wondered how do you break it to a 6, 8 or 10 year old that mom and dad can't stand each other and mom and dad will no longer be married. 6 months later dad has some stranger around his arm that he's going to marry and moms still crying.

[Jane]

Well, Daniel,
One thing is for sure....the kids have already noticed that their parents can't stand each other...so that is no biggie. 
In all circumstances of change, What children need is safety--a secure sense that they are going to be loved and cared for by both parents, even if that is in a new living arrangement.
I don't even think that new partners introduced into the mix is such a big deal, for the children as long as the new romance does not displace the children's place and value.  The problem with new romances is that the ex-partner will have all manner of indignity flare up, and various abandonment complexes etc, while the one romancing will think he or she just got a ticket to collect $200 and bypass jail.  This for the most part is all illusion.
Anyway, the problem is not with the children, it is the reality that many divorcing parents are poor, immature communicators who have not become conscious of their behaviour and their conditioning, and my guess are on the slow learning curve of showing up authentically in their own lives.....the drama, the endless sleepless nights, the gnashing of teeth etc that constitutes most break-ups is directly related to how much any person is seeking and expecting solace and comfort outside themselves versus how much any person sucks it up and uses it as fuel needed to ignite his or her own self discovery...... Without doing this the old pain body kicks in....the blame game ensues... the children are left in the crossfire......and a new layer of mess gets moved into the next generations.  Even if just one adult person does his or her own work, grows up, stops expecting things to be different than they are, it is surprising what miracles of consciousness issue forth.....
My two cents....sadly learned the hard way, happily, many years ago!
Jane
 

[Jana]

Perhaps the nuclear family is exploding as a model...it serves the ego, but it doesn't serve deep humanity. A more communal approach would probably be healthier. For starters though there should be a relationship/marriage/parenting aspect to childhood education all the way thru. Romantic fairytales without more of a left brain approach to the logistics of relationship just sets entire generations up for failure. It would be good to observe a community where relationships and child rearing was actually working.

[Daniel]

Great thoughts ladies. It's certainly a big mess  , one of the root causes of this worlds complex set of problems.
It keeps the psychotheraptists in business.

Dan

[Daniel]

Looking at that sign every day is depressing. This city is ranked 4th for stress level (however they figure that out). It's also one of the top regions for bankruptcy, foreclosures, underwater mortgages and unemployment. So many marriages are suffering. And the kids.

[Liz]

Its not good for kids to live with adults who are not happy together.
Divorce isn't always a tragedy, sometimes its just an honest recognition of the facts of the situation-and a blessed liberation.
Oh and it isn't always the men who leave!

[Daniel]

This is true.
I knew a black male nurse in Miami who was married to a Philippino nurse (great combined income). They had two girls (I think twins). One day out of the blue she decided to pack her bags and leave. She disappeared totally and he raised the girls.

[Daniel]

"Its not good for kids to live with adults who are not happy together.
Divorce isn't always a tragedy, sometimes its just an honest recognition of the facts of the situation-and a blessed liberation."

I see your point.

On the other hand, it can also be a "cop out" on doing deep work that's hard as hell to do and something many people would rather avoid.
(And then it gets complicated when one partner is committed to doing the deep work and the other refuses and is a stubborn ass about it. Yes, it's never black and white.)

You must question yourself, what are you dragging the kids through? Some fights (domestic violence of course is unacceptable)...or a life shattering rupture with a divorce?

It's easier to breakup the marriage for many folks. Anyway, also a good excuse to go through multiple sex partners without having the morality stigma of having affairs.
Divorce enables you to have lots of sex with different partners and have it all be perfectly socially acceptable.
If you stay married and do that (behind the partners back that is), you're scum.
And what? To avoid that stigma of "affairs" you divorce instead, cause great devistation to your children just so you can trade up to some hot stuff babe or stud thats 10-20 years younger and a great romp in the hay?

Then you get those hypocritical asses who have a history of divorce or dating men or women who were divorced/seperated with kids and then turn around and judge those who struggle with the same issues and questions, even to the point of socially alienating them because of it. They have supposedly moved on in glorious spiritual growth while you are left floundering in the muck and meyer of it. Yep, that's real friendship and compassion for you. Reminds me of the Bob Dylan line "When I was down..." So much for the Bodhisattva principle.

Isn't that funny? This society views divorce as no big deal regardless of the devastation on children and yet frowns heavily on cheaters much more so.
Granted the impact on the children from parents who cheat is not good either (if they ever find out that is), but you really have to ask yourself, who the hell are we so wise and powerful to see the ends of the decisions we make in the name of a perceived "blessed liberation" while narcissistically ignoring the consequences?

By the way, this is an editorial - not a personal testimonial.

And definitively by the way, comments in no way are judgemental of anyone.

The Four Agreements are:

1.Be Impeccable With Your Word.
2.Don't Take Anything Personally.
3.Don't Make Assumptions.
4.Always Do Your Best.

[Liz]

I'm not even going to start, that is so self serving and offensive I'm not even going to try

[Jane]

Daniel,
What is your personal testimony?  Editorial opinions are not worth much until they are grounded in felt, lived experience. Why did you bring this topic up?
Jane

[Jana]

Since we live in an over populated world, don't need to specialize the domestic and food gathering functions, don't need a partner in order to survive etc... perhaps marriage is not even a functional model anymore. If marriage is obsolete, then divorce is equally mute.

Around 2 million years ago, Homo habilis learned to control fire and the prehistoric hominids developed a social system based on economic cooperative food sharing, where the male hunted, while the female gathered and cooked. Fire also increased our omnivorousness, and adaptability to every ecological niche and widened the range of what we could consume. Cooking resulted in the food processing apparatus of the gut to shrink, and so with less energy used by the gut the brain was able to grow. Fire provided defense against large carnivores, permitting us to move down from the trees and live on the ground leading to the development of long legs and flat feet—ideal for running and hunting. With fire we lost our fur, allowing the quicker dissipation heat so hunters could chase an animal until it collapsed from heat exhaustion. Cooking reduced chewing time from around 5 hours per day to 1 hour, freeing time to hunt. The specialization into cooking by women, and hunting by men trapped women into a subservient role enforced by male-dominated culture in which the “hunting skills” were turned toward “war.” So you could say that the control of fire lead ultimately to a patriarchal culture with modern technological warfare, due in large part to an imbalance of power between the males and females of the species. We have to now ask do these roles, dietary modes, social customs, relationship bargains and economic models still serve us as a species?

[Daniel]

"I'm not even going to start, that is so self serving and offensive I'm not even going to try"


Liz I am speaking from life long experiences with my father and mother, and that's just for starters.
No need to start the list of people I know personally of whom my comments apply.
I know them, know what I have been told, know what I have seen.
I'll go no further than that, so if you think I was attacking you personally, you're dead wrong.

Jane, I brought this up because it has been on my mind lately.
Some things in life have come full circle for me.
Just wanted to bounce it off the Integral community.
Simply that.
I thought that it might be a change of pace with some integral spice added.
This is the place for Hearts and Minds, having open forum for sensitive topics.

BTW, Jana, your objectivity is always appreciated.

A great alternative career would be a psychotherapist. I've always liked psych in nursing and might go that direction
after my Masters degree for ARNP. I think Integral Divorce would be the perfect topic for a paper towards a PHD as well.
The intelligence and heart here adds to the collective wisdom on the topic.

So sorry about the spattered crudeness in some of the comments, I guess that's the shadow from my past.
Apologies if it offended anyone, not intended. From now on all comments will be completely civil,  minus any red meme shadow dancing.
Forgive me.

I prize everyone's input!





The Four Agreements are:

1.Be Impeccable With Your Word.
2.Don't Take Anything Personally.
3.Don't Make Assumptions.
4.Always Do Your Best.

[henry]

the four agreements thingy comes from Ruiz and is good advice. i've never been married but if both of my parents hadn't been previously divorced, i wouldn't exist . i have hope for the the post cultural visionary male-female tantric synergistic evolutionary ideal, and i sure get flirty in August .... "its just a box of rain...believe it if you need it, if you don't just pass it on" ... Love to Heartmind

[Jana]

Women need complete license to define themselves these days...for it is important for world-sanity that female energies and creativity come out the bag. As women find themselves and their empowerment, and as men are freed up from being forced into the provider position...we see that the dual person household is a limited economic model that keeps man and women back in their old terrible roles. Thus in a society in which both men and women are equally following their soul's vocation it makes more sense that they live apart and get together once a week or once a month, or for joint projects. This increases the integrity of both individuals and raises the man/women relationship up to teliophillia. The secret to soulful relationship is to generate interactions that synerize and build energy and consciousness.